[Tink]

Sheryl. I agree fully, it's getting dh to back me that's been the hard part. His dad was an abusive nasty person and dh has taken the absolute opposite approach in his parenting in an effort to never be anything like him. It just breaks his heart to think of being that firm even though he seems to know it's gone too far too.

I really want to set a deadline and stick to it. If he's old enough to be engaged, he's certainly old enough to move out of our house! He's been offered to move into the same house his fiancee lives in and split the rent etc... and he finds all kinds of excuses not to go. I think it's time we just put our foot down so he has to go somewhere. It's not healthy for him to keep living here... not for ANY of us.

Katie being pg, has renewed her resolve to move out again. Her bf tells me his Christmas gift to her is going to be the first and last months rent and deposit on an apartment for her. (Whether she's ready for him to move in or not at this point is still in question) So unless she refuses his gift, she will be moving into a place of her own soon.

I think whatever date we set for Joel should also hold for Doug, the "extra kid" we have living here. I can't see keeping him here if we make Joel leave.

If I have my way, we will have an empty nest before New Years. I pray it works out that way.